SmartmanApps

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💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

You’ve completely not understood that order of operations is an arbitrary convention

No, you've completely not understood that they are universal rules of Maths

How did you decide to expand the definition of multiplication before evaluating the addition? Convention

The definition of Multiplication as being repeated addition

You can’t write 2 + 2 ÷ 2 like this

Yes you can

so how are you gonna decide whether to decide to divide or add first?

The rules of Maths, which says Division must be before Addition

💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

PEMDAS isn’t obvious to “common people”?

Everyone is taught the rules of Maths

If “×” means “groups of,”

It means repeated addition actually

“2+2×4” means “two plus two groups of four”

No, it means 2+2+2+2+2

Sure the order of operations could be arbitrarily different

No they can't

I feel like we settled on that order because it simply makes more sense intuitively

It's because Multiplication is defined as repeated addition, so if you don't do it before addition you get wrong answers

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💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

Your obviously is only a convention

Nope. Rules of Maths

it would have to have different order or parentheses or both.

Neither. Multiplication is always before Addition, hence "obviously"

Of course everything in math is convention

Nope. The vast majority of it is proven rules

2+(2*4) is more obvious to common people

Weird then how many people were able to get this right without brackets for centuries before we started using brackets in Maths (which we've only had for 300 years)

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💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

The order of operations is different between conventional written maths, calculators, reverse polish notation, python, etc.

The notation might be different, but the rules are universal

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💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

it’s just about convention aka how to communicate math

They're rules actually.

The author didn’t make themselves clear enough

Yes they did, someone screwed up the answers, just like in this book...

misunderstand what calculation they mean

There's only 1 possible answer to it.

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💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

That’s normal for multiple choice

No it isn't.

sometimes all the answers are correct

Not in multiple choice they aren't. At best you might have "D) All of the above" if there's genuinely more than 1 answer

We can assume

Someone screwed up somewhere, and there will be lots of complaints from students. Despite it being "you only had 1 job", proofreaders still miss things sometimes...

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💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

different places teach different conventions

But they all teach the same rules

some places say that PEDMAS is a very strict order

Which is totally fine and works

Other places say that it is PE D|M A|S,

Which is also totally fine and works

even in this post, say it’s PEMDAS

Also totally fine and works

it’s simply a matter of if the people talking agree on the convention to use

No-one has to agree on any convention - they can use whatever they want and as long as they obey the rules it will work

can’t agree on

Educated people agree that which convention you use doesn't matter.

💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

Nothing about math is real

You spelt "everything" wrong

Every single thing about it is abstract

Representing something real underneath in every case - 1+1=2 can refer to apples, eggs, cardboard boxes, anything at all.

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💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

PEMDAS isn’t even real

Yes it is

It’s something we made up

No it isn't. They are proven rules of Maths arising from the definitions of the operators to begin with.

Creating fake problems by inserting ambiguity is ridiculous

There's no ambiguity in the order of operations rules

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💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

Then you’re just a crank who lies to thirteen-year-olds about some bullshit you made up.

Weird then that's in in Maths textbooks isn't it 😂

Both 2(8+0)2 and 2(8*1)2

Says another person who can't tell the difference between a(b+c) and a(bc) 🙄

Nobody but you has this problem

Knowing how to read Maths textbooks is a problem?? 😂 I can assure you that all my students have this same "problem"

Real math doesn’t work differently based on how you got there

It does if you have different expressions, such as 8/2(1+3) and 8/2x(1+3)

B 8/2(1+3)=8/(2+6)=8/8

E

DM 8/8=1

AS

B 8/2x(1+3)=8/2x4

E

DM 8/2x4=4x4=16

AS

Different expressions, different order of evaluation, same rules of Maths (both following BEDMAS here) resulting in the different evaluations of the different expressions 🙄

💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

We can see the Acrobat window in those scans you found online.

...and the ones that came with the textbook, and not in the photo's 😂

You think 2(8)2 is 128 if that’s simplified from 2(8+0)2… but 256 if it’s simplified from 2(8*1)2. In short: no

says person who can't tell the difference between a(b+c) and a(bc) 😂

I think you’re about fifteen years old. You had an unpleasant teacher who belittled you, and you’ve identified with the aggressor. Your whole online persona is posturing to always be smarterer than everybody else

#EveryAccusationIsAConfession

Wolfram fucking Alpha is wrong about basic algebra

Which is an established fact

Faced with a contradiction that requires you to insist (8*1) ≠ (8+0)

again says person who can't tell the difference between a(b+c) and a(bc) 😂

The word you should be looking for is, “oops.”

yet again says person who can't tell the difference between a(b+c) and a(bc) 😂

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💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

Don’t move the goalposts

I didn't. You're the one who has been desperately trying to make a False Equivalence argument between a(b+c) and a(bc)² 🙄

I’ve posted textbooks showing that “solving brackets” only applies to the inside,

No you haven't. A college refresher isn't a Maths textbook, and I already pointed out to you that they don't mention The Distributive Law at all, unlike, you know, high school Maths textbooks 🙄

distribution is part of multiplication

And the high school Maths textbooks I posted prove you are wrong about that 🙄

and optional

And the high school Maths textbooks I posted prove you are wrong about that too, 🙄 unless you think "optional" is a valid interpretation of what "must" means 😂

You’ve said yourself your magic rule is taught in highschool,

Yep

so a refresher course in college would never ignore it

And yet you proved that they did in fact forget about it 🙄

Now instead of giving weak excuses

they say to person who has been backed up by every textbook they posted so far 😂

provide your part of the proof.

Just scroll back dude - they're all still there, like here for example.

And I’m not talking about multiplication

Well that'll be a nice change then 😂

I want to see anywhere where a distribution is given precedence over an exponent

Because you are hell bent on making a False Equivalence argument between a(b+c) and a(bc)². I don't care dude. there is no exponent in the meme. I'll take that as an admission that you are wrong about a(b+c) then.

💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

PDFs found online

Nope! If you looked more carefully you'll find some of them are photo's and scans. You also seem to be forgetting that every modern textbook comes with a PDF as well 🙄

From which you are ignoring counterexamples using a(b+c)n. Fraud

says the actual fraud who keeps ignoring that there is no exponent in a(b+c) 😂

Go ahead and tell me how you would explain what 3(x+y) means without referring to Multiplication?
Your own spammed screenshots say 3 gets multiplied

So in other words, you weren't able to. Also, it doesn't say that - well done on missing the point for a third time in a row 😂

There is no special case

So you think 2(3x4x5)=(2x3x2x4x2x5) is totally fine? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA 😂😂😂

You made it up

Weird then that it's in Maths textbooks isn't it, that 2(3x4x5) is in fact only equal to 2(60)? 😂

does it just mean 8?

says person showing they don't know the difference in meaning between "means" and "equals" 😂

so 2(8+0)2 is the same as 2(8)2

Yep.

The latter is the next step in simplifying the former

Yep.

You’ve admitted simplifying first is valid

Yep.

when your nose was rubbed in your own found PDFs doing exactly that

Nope! When you finally discovered that they were both valid, even though only a couple of textbooks I posted specifically said to Distribute first. We in fact teach students to simplify before Distributing - less working out, less mistakes with signs.

You don’t have an opinion

That's right, just facts, as per Maths textbooks 😂

You make no claim, anymore

a(b+c)=(ab+ac), same thing I've been saying the whole time

All you have left are derision and emojis

and facts

You’ve admitted 2(8*1)2 means 2(8)(8)

Nope! Never said anything of the sort, liar. I have said the whole time that Multiplication is a special case, to which you claimed there was no special case.

insist that’s different from 2(8)2 because…

No Multiplication. It's not complicated 🙄

You cannot explain it even now

I already did. Not my fault you don't understand the difference between Addition and Multiplication 😂

💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

Your bullshit hit max comment depth.

That's hilarious that you're calling textbooks "bullshit" 🤣🤣🤣 BTW there's nothing preventing you from addressing comments made in a different post to the one you're replying to, 🙄 and yet, yet again, you didn't. Did you work out yet why we don't write (a+b)c? It's all in the post you're avoiding.

So when you said 2(8)2 is 256, you were wrong

Nope. 2(8*1)² has a Multiplication inside the Brackets, so The Distributive Law does not apply, 2(8)² doesn't have Multiplication in it, so The Distributive Law does apply. As I've already said repeatedly, if you wanted 2x8², then you could've just written 2x8². If you've written 2(8) rather then 2x8, then you are saying this is a Product, not a Multiplication.

Otherwise - walk me through how 2(8*1)2, 2(8+0)2, and 2(8)2 aren’t equal, alleged math teacher.

I already did multiple times. The first one has Multiplication in it, the other two don't. Multiplication (and Division) is the special case where The Distributive Law does not apply, because you cannot Distribute over Multiplication, only Addition (and Subtraction)

alleged math teacher.

who mysteriously owns dozens of Maths textbooks, many of which quoted in the post you're avoiding 😂

None of them have said a(b+c)=ax(b+c)
“3(x+y) means 3*(x+y).”

Yep, doesn't say equals, exactly as I said 🙄 Congratulations on missing the point a second time in a row. You wanna go for three?

“It depends on what the definition of is, is,”

You think "means" and "equals" are the same word?? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! 🤣🤣🤣 You know the language has to get dumbed down to Year 7 level, right? And you're still missing the point, right? 😂 Go ahead and tell me how you would explain what 3(x+y) means without referring to Multiplication? I'll wait. BTW I'll point out yet again That the questions on Page 282, answers on Page 577, prove I am the one interpreting this right. Maths teacher understands Maths textbook language better than someone who isn't a Maths teacher. Who woulda thought?? 😂

says someone definitely not trapped in a contradiction

Yep, I'm definitely not trapped in a contradiction. 🤣🤣🤣 Look at the questions on Page 282, answers on Page 577, and then ask yourself what you think they meant when they said means, 😂and not equals. There is definitely a specific reason they did not say equals

💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

Firstly, it's hilarious that you've gone back to a previous comment, thus ignoring the dozen textbook references I posted 😂

That would mean 2(8*1)2 is 128

That's right, because we don't Distribute over Multiplication (and Division), only Addition and Subtraction (it's right there in the Property's name - The Distributive Property of Multiplication over Addition). Welcome to you proving why a(bc)² is a special case 😂 I've been telling you this whole time that a(b+c) and a(bc) aren't the same, and you finally stumbled on why they aren't the same 😂

You are the one saying it’s not 2a2b2,

No I'm not. I never said that, liar. I've been telling you the whole time that it is a special case 🙄 (upon which you claimed there was no special case)

because you think it’s 22a2b2,

No I don't. That's why you can't quote me ever saying that 🙄

exponents are where you are blatantly full of shit

and there are no exponents in a(b+c) and all this stuff about exponents is you being blatantly full of shit 🙄

Source: your ass.

No, this meme

Notice that there are no exponents? 😂

Every published example disagrees

says person who came back to this post to avoid this post which is full of published examples that agree with me - weird that 😂

that up-to-date Maths textbook must be wrong

And I also pointed out why that was wrong here. i.e. the post that you have avoided replying to 😂

You alone are correct on this accursed Earth

No, all textbooks as well, except those which are using the old-fashioned and wrong syntax of (a+b)c, not to mention most calculators as well (only Texas Instruments is still doing it wrongly).

Page 31 of the PDF… right

Before the pages I already posted in the post that you are avoiding replying to 😂

where you’ve dishonestly twisted the “expanding brackets” text. Next page: “3(x+y) means 3*(x+y).”

means not equals, Mr. Person Who Is Actually Dishonestly Twisting The Words, as proven by the exercises on Page 282, answers on Page 577, which are also in the post that you are avoiding replying to 😂

Page 129 of that PDF, exercise 5, question 14: simplify 2(e4)2. The answer on PDF page 414 is 2e8

That's right

Your bullshit would say 4e8.

Nope. Been telling you the whole time that is a special case, upon which you claimed there was no such special case 😂

if you somehow need further proof of how this actually works

No, I don't, it's still a False Equivalence argument 🙄 But if you wanna waste your time on an irrelevant point (which you seem determined to do), go ahead, don't let me stop you, but that's an admission that you are wrong about a(b+c)

Damn dude, that’s five textbooks you chose saying you’re full of shit

Nope! None of them have said a(b+c)=ax(b+c), they have all said a(b+c)=(ab+ac), which is why you're avoiding replying to the post of mine which quotes them all 🙄

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💡𝚂𝗆𝖺𝗋𝗍𝗆𝖺𝗇 𝙰𝗉𝗉𝗌📱 @programming.dev 4mo ago

This is a college textbook, and that explains how to solve it

It's a college refresher course on high school Maths. They also forgot to cover The Distributive Law, which is not unusual given college Professors don't actually teach high school Maths.

Another example

From the same refresher course 🙄

Alternatively, here is another example

Which also doesn't cover The Distributive Law, which isn't surprising given that chapter isn't even about order of operations! 😂

In case you can’t find the correct part

Still not about a(b+c). You lot are investing so much effort into such an obvious False Equivalence argument it's hilarious! 😂