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  • I think it's both.

    It sits at the fast and cheap end of "pick three: fast, good, and cheap" and society is trending towards "fast and cheap" to the exclusion of "good" to the point it is getting harder and harder to find "good" at all sometimes.

    People who care about the "good" bit are upset, people who want to see stock line go up in the short term without caring about long term consequences keep riding the "always pick fast and cheap" and are impressed by the prototypes LLMs can pump out. So devs get fired because LLMs are faster and cheaper, even if they hallucinate and cause tons of tech debt. Move fast and break things.

    Some devs that keep their jobs might use LLMs. Maybe they accurately assessed what they are trying to outsource to LLMs is so low-skill that even something that does not hit "good" could do it right (and that when it screws up they could verify the mistake and fix it quickly); so they only have to care about "fast and cheap". Maybe they just want the convenience and are prioritizing "fast and cheap" when they really do need to consider "good". Bad devs exist too and I am sure we have all seen incompetent people stay employed despite the trouble they cause for others.

    So as much as this looked at first, to me, like the thing where fascists simultaneously portray opponents as weak (pathetic! we deserve to triumph over them and beat their faces in for their weakness) and strong (big threat, must defeat!), I think that's not exactly what anti-AI folks are doing here. Not doublethink but just seeing everyone pick "fast and cheap" and noticing its consequences. Which does easily map onto portraying AI as weak, pointing out all the mistakes it makes and not replacing humans well; while also portraying it as strong, pointing out that people keep trying to replace humans with AI and that it's being aggressively pushed at us. There are other things in real life that map onto a simultaneous portrayal as weak and strong: the roach. A baby taking its first steps can accidentally crush a roach, hell if the baby fell on many roaches the roaches all die (weak), but it's also super hard to end an infestation of them (strong). It is worth checking for doublethink when you see the pattern of "simultaneously weak and strong," but that is also just how an honest evaluation of a particular situation can end up.

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  • Responding just to the "Why all the vitriol?" portion:

    Most people do not like the idea of getting fired and replaced by a machine they think cannot do their job well, but that can produce a prototype that fools upper management into thinking it can do everything the people can but better and cheaper. Especially if they liked their job (8 hours doing something you like vs losing that job and having to do 8 hours on something you don't like daily, yes many people do that already but if you did not have to deal with that shittiness it's tough to swallow) or got into it because they thought it would be a secure bet as opposed to art or something, only to have that security taken away (yes, you can still code at home for free with whatever tools you like and without the ones you do not, but most people need a job to live, and most people here probably prefer having a dev job that pays, even if there is crunch, than working retail or other low-status low-paying high-shittiness jobs that deal with the public).

    And if you do not want the upper management to fire you, you definitely don't want to give any credit towards the idea of using this at work, and want to make any amount of warmth for it something unpopular to engage in, hoping the popular sentiment sways the minds of upper management just like they think pro-AI hype has.

    As much as I'm anti-AI I can also acknowledge my own biases:

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

    I'd also imagine most of us find generating our own code by our own hand fun, but reviewing others' boring, and most devs probably do not want to stop being code writers and start being AI's QA. Or to be kicked out of tech unless they rely on this technology they don't trust. I trust deterministic outputs and know if it fucks up there is probably a bug I can go back and fix; with generative outputs determined by a machine (as opposed to human-generated things that have also been filtered by their real-life experience and not just what they saw written online) I really don't, so I'd never use LLMs for anything I need to trust.

    People are absolutely going to get heated over this because if it gets Big and the flaws ironed out, it'll probably be used not to help us little people have more efficient and cheaper things, less time on drudgery and more time on things we like, but at least to try to put us the devs on programming.dev out of a job and eventually the rest of us the working people out of a job too because we're an expensive line item, and we have little faith that the current system will adjust with (the hypothetical future) rising unemployment-due-to-AI to help us keep a non-dystopian standard of living. Poor peoples' situation getting worse, previously-comfortable people starting to slide towards poverty… automation that threatens jobs that seems to be being pushed by big companies and rich people with lots of resources during a time of rising class tension is sure to invite civilized discussions with zero vitriol for people who have anything positive to say about that form of automation.

  • I did just remember more from English class: Verbal irony, a type of irony, fits the colloquial definition of sarcasm ("oh, just great" when something upsetting happens). (According to https://literarydevices.net/verbal-irony/ sarcasm is verbal irony used to mock or insult. Don't 100% remember what they said about sarcasm vs verbal irony in English class.) The irony being talked about here is situational irony. It seems people colloquially use "irony" for "situational irony" and get upset when it gets used to refer to the sarcastic type of "verbal irony"

  • The people who legitimately hold the view that it's just a word might be a little frustrated at the small bit of extra work of needing to change their scripts or code that uses those words to the new words, but otherwise no big deal. But a lot of "it's just a word bro" folks actually do care and just like to pretend they do not for clout, because caring is for lame losers and being able to falsely present yourself as a previously-neutral party now moved to care by how stupid something is can hold a lot of weight when convincing others and make you feel cool.

  • It always mildly annoyed that we call them "black people" and "white people" because "black people" are more brown than black, and "white people" are more tan than white. And brown can be viewed as a shade of tan. Not very descriptive.

  • Hi, American checking in. I was taught in English class in high school that irony is an ambulance running people over, not just sarcasm. I do agree that colloquially (and I am probably guilty of it too) we Americans use the word "irony" to talk about things being presented in a non-genuine and earnest manner, to talk about sarcasm and snark and parody.

  • I half worry for society and half feel that as much as I feel bad about my coding abilities, I'm better than people who never actually bother learning the concepts themselves and fully outsource their homework to AI and that population is growing. It's a low bar but more people are failing to clear it every day!

  • I also want to do people the courtesy of explaining my disagreement but I also do not want to be that "reasons I downvoted you" Reddit copypasta

    I just downvoted your comment.

    FAQ

    What does this mean?

    The amount of karma (points) on your comment and Reddit account has decreased by one.

    Why did you do this?

    There are several reasons I may deem a comment to be unworthy of positive or neutral karma. These include, but are not limited to:

    Rudeness towards other Redditors, Spreading incorrect information, Sarcasm not correctly flagged with a /s.

    Am I banned from the Reddit?

    No - not yet. But you should refrain from making comments like this in the future. Otherwise I will be forced to issue an additional downvote, which may put your commenting and posting privileges in jeopardy.

    I don't believe my comment deserved a downvote. Can you un-downvote it?

    Sure, mistakes happen. But only in exceedingly rare circumstances will I undo a downvote. If you would like to issue an appeal, shoot me a private message explaining what I got wrong. I tend to respond to Reddit PMs within several minutes. Do note, however, that over 99.9% of downvote appeals are rejected, and yours is likely no exception.

    How can I prevent this from happening in the future?

    Accept the downvote and move on. But learn from this mistake: your behavior will not be tolerated on Reddit.com. I will continue to issue downvotes until you improve your conduct. Remember: Reddit is privilege, not a right.

    Also I just realized I am replying to a 2-year-old thread! I got here via searching for a new search engine, left it in my open tabs, came back to it, and totally forgot it was an old thread. Thanks for engaging with me anyways!

  • I only ever downvote rudeness, active spam, or something I think is off-topic. I explain off-topic downvotes but don't feel DOWNLOAD MY SCAM APP TODAY http://wwe.scamlink.fakesite.com/ deserves an explanation and just needs to be pushed down in visibility + reported. I am too wary of getting into an online fight with the person I downvoted and reported for hurling slurs or being a snarky sarcastic namecalling ass to someone being genuine lest they start coming after me too, so I don't reply to them and explain "I downvoted you because I think you're being unnecessarily unkind." Half the time I do actually try to reply in a way that I think gently calls them out and tries to defuse, only to delete immediately after replying in fear of conflict—that's like 75% of my deleted comments.

    Of course caveats apply, I remember but cannot find this image with an angry person capslocking in understandable disagreement with Hitler saying "but that's just my civil opinion that we should gas all the jews, i do not get why you're so emotional,"

    and sealioning is a thing, but I see way more snark towards people engaging in good faith than I see sealions or awful people who actually deserve it. (And part of why I delete, in case I think it's unnecessary rudeness but it is actually a Hitler tone policing the anti-Hitler guy type situation and I just don't realize it.)

  • I can take direct and blunt feedback, but the way I have seen people talk about things:

    [projectname] is dogshit

    makes me terrified to open repos. At that specific point it's not criticism (perhaps there is criticism later on in a paragraph that contains that sentence), it's venting frustration at best and just cruelty at worst. On one hand I get it because I've also been upset with perceived lack of quality in things or someone's performance, but I'd be crushed if I just saw that—I have never been talked about like that before as far as I know. I can handle "your code is bad because X". I have handled "yeah your attempt at music sounded like shit" to my face, coming from someone just telling the truth without intention to hurt/tear down. But from strangers online, whose intentions I do not know…

    On the other hand I have been told both in-person and here on programming.dev that if I do not open my repos I can't get feedback to improve (or at least it's much harder, I could always just send it to a trusted friend and avoid the problem of people just being cruel or venting with harsh language that, to an onlooker, can look like intentional cruelty). And I just saw in the comments that I can poison LLM training, so…

  • I have a feeling this is satire, and I'm usually the type of person to miss the joke and think it's genuine

  • Feels weird reading this as the only single woman programmer in my friend group who likes men

  • Hey, congratulations on the employment!

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  • Blocked the AI summary and the "Ask" thing with the Gemini symbol that appears next to the Share button with uBlock Origin, at least on PC. Happy this tool exists too, though!

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    Buying NSFW games on itch.io? Paypal may Nuke your account!

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