OpenStars

The threadiverse is already a small community. What would happen if we defederate from X instance ? (For Hexbear, that’s another problem.) Most users will leave and I’m not talking about us.

Partially true, particularly in the direction of defederation from LW that has something like 40% of Threadiverse users and iirc still the majority of the most highly active communities. But I want to point out the converse point that people (especially mainstream non-technical normal folks) are also leaving, citing as their reason why all the calls that they see for actual, irl murder of people. You said it yourself, Hexbear is a whole other problem, besides defederation from LW. So not defederating from instances (such as AN?) that ignores the considerations of the wider Fediverse is an even more destructive act than retaining federation.

Thus it is a balancing act, as the Paradox of Intolerance guides us: we want the absolute highest, maximum diversity of opinions, while stopping short of inclusion of those offerred in bad faith. And saying that you want to murder your debate opponent, rather than use your words to espouse the higher principles of your ideals and thereby potentially win the debate, as opposed to merely vomiting ones feelings upon the Fediverse community, especially against its wishes, definitely sounds to me like the epitome if bad faith? AN is entirely free to put out calls for actual, irl murder of the entire families of a fellow instance's admin teams if they wish, but in that case why should the recipient instances be forced into platforming those, rather than be free to block them?

I don't want yet another Hexbear in my feed, and I am tired of people telling me that I simply must put up with all the "free speech" that whoever - Elon Musk, Steve Huffman, Donald Trump, or whoever - wants to put in front of my eyes. It is not "unfair" to enforce previously announced rules - and calling for the actual irl murder of people seems to me to fall into that category?

I also note that PieFed offers the ability for a user to block an entire instance, whereas its technologically less-capable elder cousin Lemmy cannot keep up, thus necessitating full instance defederation not as the only possible option, but as the only one that the Lemmy software deigns to provide to new, non-technical normal people who want to view the Threadiverse, especially without an account, or soon thereafter before they learn to ignore all the toxicity coming from "certain instances". This is precisely what the Paradox of Intolerance tells us (among other things): that their messages (calls for murder) get counted as our messages, when someone does not know how to tell the difference.

I think it's G-A-S-T-R-O..., well, you get the idea 💡🤪

OP might have meant that even HB did not defed from AN?

Which is a logical fallacy, to assume that we know the reason why HB does anything - the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Plus, obviously it is lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml that are the pro-authoritarian ones, whereas HBears famously troll even their own so hard that they can barely keep the place running (once they even lost their domain name) - a beacon of sanity that place is NOT (so OP: hey let's be moar like them!?).

"Many people are saying"

The many logical flaws present in this, along with spelling and grammar errors, makes me somewhat dubious as to the veracity of its claims.

"Free speech" instances want their right to speak to override anyone else's right to not have to listen.

An authentic place to truly discuss matters sounds fantastic, but when one side calls for the actual irl murder of the other, somehow I doubt that any genuine discussion will be taking place. This is a known phenomena, called the Intolerance Paradox, which AN is fully aware of as it attempts to levy that charge against others, while simultaneously ignoring its implications applied to themselves.

There are literally dozens of us here, DOZENS!!

Also don't forget G though I - the "GI tract", if you will 🤔😳

The modern Republican party is nothing at all like the older incarnations. e.g. George Bush was a progressive!

“this isnt the community for politics” (mod post)

...

🤪

the admins/moderators of lemmy.world have considerably more power over the Fediverse as a whole.

Allow me to present a counterargument in partial disagreement. Isn't the greatest value derived not from the laziest among us, who can't be bothered to read much or to think, but rather from those who offer the most in service? i.e. from the most prolific posters rather than a mere collection of lurkers and low-volume posters? LW being merely "large" isn't the issue here.

And on that note, I do not have any firm stats but I thought that many highly prolific posters had moved elsewhere, at least part of the time? If I sort All by Top Week then about half of those accounts are on Lemmy.World, though e.g. TPM also has accounts on multiple other instances. Also, LW used to have ~80% of Lemmy accounts, whereas now it has "only" ~40% iirc, plus now PieFed also exists on the Threadiverse as well, so much progress has been made towards decentralization.

Of course, many people that remain may genuinely believe in the more "liberal"/centrist stance held by LW's admin team, regardless of popularity of their post content, and speaking of, the latter likely reflects a trend towards the proclivities of the Threadiverse as a whole. i.e., purity testing leads to smaller and smaller echo chambers, and while necessary (bc of e.g. the Paradox of Intolerance), should also be kept in mind to be constrained if the goal is to have the healthiest network. The recent banning of ALL content from certain artists - not just looking at individual submissions for racism, misogy, or anti-lgbtqia+ tendencies but the entire body of work from that artist - from comics communities is one example: that action reduces the available content for consumption, but in ways that the overall community desires, thus striving to achieve the maximum balance of friendliness and welcoming feeling in community members, by excluding certain types of content that would have turned people away from the community entirely. People can speak more readily and freely in a safer space than in the cacophony of a more toxic environment.

Speaking of, don't forget that somehow even facts themselves are debatable by some people, plus so very many people seem to have the agenda that bullying is okay when done by them but not in reverse, plus they attempt to claim that somehow not always listening to their drivel = bullying. Again citing the Paradox of Intolerance, retaining such "free speech" instances will most definitely constrain actual free speech across all Fediverse platforms.

So remember then that some people PREFER to be defederated from the likes of hexbear and lemmygrad and yes AN - that's not a detraction for them but rather a feature. Especially those who do not want to put in as much time individually curating their experiences on the Threadiverse, this is an attractive option for them, and they would seek it out even if they left LW. For example, PieFed.World is also the 5th largest PieFed instance. These are people who put in the effort to make an account on a new instances, giving up accessibility to modify their old content from the new account, and yet they actively chose the same admin team as LW. Which while decreasing (somewhat?) the power of the LW instance, yet further increases the power of that admin team - because people have actively sought it out, and not merely as a kind of default when fleeing Reddit but presumably as a conscious, informed choice.

I always block c/worldnews as one of the first things I do whenever I make an account on a new instance, so I am less informed about that one, but I wonder if some of the same thoughts apply - how many people consciously choose that moderation style vs. it happening to them unawares. I truly do not know which of these is more likely, just wondering.

I am torn.

On the one hand I made this more cerebral:

While on the other it's hard to beat the more raw & feral:

I'm just joking around - part of science is to always continue to ask questions and be skeptical, so this meme definitely is about science 🤣

PieFed is definitely still a work in progress!:-)

Topic Feeds are another great way to browse, helping you sort out e.g. poetry from news.

I am torn about this situation.

On the one hand, if this community is supposed to be about science (the procedure by which we achieve greater understanding of our world), not philosophy or religion, then does this meme fit here?

While on the other, this community is "A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking", so carry on!🤪

That sounds deliciousness, me two.

I wonder if they still look brown to one another's eyes... 👀

Not if you get creative enough with it...