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2 yr. ago

  • I will have disagree on this one.

    Hungary is no North Korea or even russia.

    And it is very much possible for the overwhelming majority of a given society to support chauvinism and genocidal imperialism. While I am not very knowledgeable on social research in Hungary, but this is patently clear with respect to russian society (note that there is a broad set of research that adjusts for preference falsification, so the usual "they are all afraid" excuses doesn't work).

    I would be happy for Hungary to take a different path, I don't believe it will happen, with or without Orban. Just my opinion, albeit shaped by factual developments with respect to Hungary's committed support for russian genocidal imperialism over the past ~15 years (including before the migration issues of 2015).

  • I hope you're right, but I have my doubts.

    And I aware that not everyone in Hungary supports Orban, but the fact remains that Hungary has been one of the biggest supporters of russia in Europe (and it's genocidal imperialist goals in Ukraine and not only) over the past ~15 years. One can't just deny this fact.

  • Is there any difference between the opposition and Orban? There is a reason specifically Hungary has been the leader of oligarchic, "illiberal democracy" in Europe.

    I will admit I am rather biased, I will always consider Hungarians as our enemies (you don't get to support a russian genocidal invasion for 10+ years, without people making up their minds about you).

  • They had a unique opportunity with the relatively peaceful end of the USSR and look how they have been behaving in the last 35 years. They did everything possible to get back on the path of authoritarianism and genocidal imperialism.

    Putin is a symptom, russian society (almost all of it) is the cause.

    They won't change until they are treated as they treat others (without full on russian-style barbarism such as mass summary killings of civilians, castrations of prisoners and so on).

  • Got banned as a "fascist sympathizer" from games@hexbear.net for discussing the Ukrainian perspective of the STALKER developers who made changes to the game trilogy

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  • The word degenerate has a meaning.

  • Leftists want to move beyond it.

    That's not always true. Many self described leftists support authoritarian state capitalism.

  • Unfortunately, this is not surprising.

    America (as it is today) talks big when the stakes are relatively low, but with a modest sign of challenge or danger they immediately fold. Just look at Trump with the Tomahawks.

  • Why can't you provide real world examples if we are supposed to take you at your word. This should be extremely easy.

    Note that I said: "attitudes, views, perspective, key historical points relevant to this conversation, no meaningless generalities."

    and it’s really just the capitalist with minimal regulation bit that’s consistently there in all the branches.

    I do not find the last piece convincing because of certain real world examples (I've lived there for multiple years and speak the local language). Keep in mind that I don't mean this a straightforward way, based on your reply, there may be things that you' haven't considered.

    Capitalism (not necessarily American-style oligarchy, or American style capitalism themed polemics and propaganda) is supported by almost everyone outside of tiny niches; it's definitely not only supported liberals, so the capitalist identification is meaningless.

    Not that "capitalist with minimal regulation" is going to be helpful in the first place.

    You couldn't even answer the kindergarten-level question:

    a liberal in Moldova, Oman and the US are all the same and “capitalist with minimal regulation” is all that they are?

    If anarchists believe this to be true, then they should say it openly. But I think everyone understands how stupid that would sound.

    Not to be overly uncharitable, but this is why a lot of English speaking (as a first language) self-identifying leftists come off as online roleplayers.

    If anything, if what you are saying is true, it only reinforces the notion that the obsession with "liberals" among internet leftists is mostly US-specific shitposting deeply tainted with American provincialism and lack of curiosity.

  • ..?

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  • I told you that I am happy that his (adult) family members who benefited from the regime were killed. I never said anything about ordering the killing of protestors being my sole red line (and we both know at least some of his family have been involved in organising the killings), so why are you asking me about this?

    What do you want me to say? That killing Khamenei was wrong? That killings his adult family was wrong?

    I am not going to say that. It's good that Khanenei was killed and it's good that his adult family members were killed. Doesn't matter if it was Israel, Islamic state or aliens from Pluto.

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  • You claimed that I was using a framing and her grand dsughter as shield then get mad when I say that you defend the usa actions.

    I said what I said because that's how it comes off to me, what's not clear?

    What does being happy that Khamenei (and his adult family members who benefited from the regime) being killed have to do with supporting Israel and the US? I explained my issue with Khamenei, did I not?

    Even if the Islamic state killed Khamenei (or Putin), I would see that as a great thing. Even though I would be one of the first in lines for an execution as an atheist if I happened to end up in an area controlled by IS.

  • the US-centric definition is effectively a subset of the general definition

    Are you sure about that? Can you cite a real world comparative example with specifics (attitudes, views, perspective, key historical points relevant to this conversation)? No meaningless generalities.

    It’s the outside-the-US meaning that anarchists would typically use ... when viewed from a leftist perspective, as they’re both capitalist with minimal regulation

    If that's the case, are you saying that a liberal in Moldova, Oman and the US are all the same and "capitalist with minimal regulation" is all that they are?

    And the points above are just the tip of the iceberg, the kindergarten-level stuff.

    So here is another question, so when you say liberals in Oman and the US are a subset of the same thing, do anarchists have the final call of defining who qualifies as a liberal in Oman (or any other country)? Does self identification as liberal play any role or not? This is not a gotcha per se., well, maybe a little bit, I am referring to something specific :), but I am genuinely curious what you have to say on this.

    I will say it again, this really is fascinating. There is a certain abstract beauty to the whole obsession with "libs" among American internet "leftists".

  • I find their obsession with the term "libs" fascinating.

    It has a very different meaning outside of the US. Which goes to show that their whole "but my global south!!" is fake and performative.

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  • Where is the defence of US and Israel on my part? Stop putting words in my mouth.

    I said I am glad Khamenei got killed, he deserved it. And that's true irrespective of what I think of the US or Israel (which may be a lot less positive than what you think).

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  • This is news to me, a minor is of course not a legitimate target. But your framing makes it seem like you are using her as a shield of sorts.

    I will note Khamenei (and his regime-aligned family members) have no issues with all the Ukrainian children killed and maimed by the russians, or hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian children abducted into brutal reeducation camps. Not to mention the killing of Iranian protesters...

  • That's a fair evaluation, but it removes agency from the American populace.

    From my time in the US, I got the impression the roots of the current oligarchic regime mostly lie in the cultural attitudes of the American population. It's not like the US got invaded by an external force or it had to deal with extraordinary circumstances.

    Just one example, is the superficial attitude to things like "freedom of speech" or "free markets". IMO, that is the real source of oligarchic/criminal power in the US.

  • ..?

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  • This reads more like a wish on your part. Which is understandable for someone shilling for the Iranian and Cuban regime leadership.

  • ..?

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  • Why can't one be happy with the death of Khamenei (and several of his family members who were part of the regime)?

    I am from Ukraine and Khamenei supported russia's genocidal invasion of my country (including assassination attempts against our leaders).

    I personally hope the Cuban leadership will also be killed by Trump. They sent many thousands of soldiers to help the russian invasion.

  • Surely a modicum of responsibility can be attached to the US public more broadly and not just public sentiment manipulators.

    As someone who has lived in the US for several years (before Trump), the impression I get is that Trump is more of a symptom and not the cause.

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